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As our article on the position states, the post was not formally abolished in 1934, but rather Stalin was not re-elected to it. This was purely a cosmetic change, since Stalin still had absolute control of the party and was deeply involved in running it day-to-day. It was only in the 1950s when he began to increasingly withdraw from Secretariat business before the position's formal abolition in 1952. Presenting it in any other way, especially in the lead, would simply be confusing and misleading to the reader. — Goszei (talk) 22:35, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Widely considered one of the 20th century's most significant figures, Stalin was the subject of a pervasive personality cult within the international Marxist–Leninist movement, which revered him as a champion of socialism and the working class. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, Stalin has retained a degree of popularity in post-Soviet states as an economic moderniser and victorious wartime leader who cemented the Soviet Union as a major world power. Conversely, his critics accuse his regime has been widely condemned for overseeing mass repression, ethnic cleansing and famine. For most Westerners and anti-communists, he is viewed overwhelmingly negatively, while for significant numbers of Russians and Georgians, he is regarded as a national hero and state-builder.
Change the second to last sentence: "Conversely, his critics accuse his regime has been widely condemned for overseeing mass repression, ethnic cleansing and famine" to: "Conversely, his critics condemn his regime for overseeing mass repression, ethnic cleansing and famine" Sansbs (talk) 03:15, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The phrase is used twice in the introduction. How can we change it up to improve the flow of the article? I'd either suggest removing one of the instances of the phrase, moving it to a different part of the article, or re-wording it. What do you think? 1101 (talk) 06:29, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the issue is the (comparatively recent?) expansion of the second paragraph of the lead. I would recommend that the lede be trimmed back further, getting it closer to the GA-rated version of the article. Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:33, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The length of the current lead is 567 words, compared to the GA-passed length of 576 words. I find the current lead superior in its explanation of the First Five Year Plan with respect to the 1932–33 famine, the targets of the Great Purge, the Gulag system (not mentioned at all in the GA lead), and deportations to remote regions (also not mentioned in the GA lead). I agree with 1101 that the phrase "millions of deaths" shouldn't be used twice. — Goszei (talk) 19:08, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Jughashvili" is the original and correct spelling of the last name. "Dzhugashvili" is the Russified version because the Russian alphabet doesn't have the letter "J" and substitutes it with "Dzh". Similarly, it does not have the letter "Gh" [ღ] (also absent in the English alphabet; pronounced like the French "R"), so it substitutes it with just "G" - making it "Dzhugashvili". But in English, the last name would definitely be spelled "Jughashvili", especially when emphasizing that it's the birth name. So the opening of the article should say "born Jughashvili" and not "born Dzhugashvili" (even if Georgia was part of the Russian Empire back then; the official language was still Georgian and the surname itself is of Georgian origin, not Russian). Vaxxxo (talk) 13:20, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is complicated, but I think the best solution is the current one, where "Dzhugashvili" is in the lead text, and "Jughashvili" is explained in a footnote. The lead introduces his patronymic in the Russified style, "Vissarionovich", so for consistency it seems to me that the first introduction of his surname should be the same; a consistent alternative is the full "Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili", but that is too redundant. In their biographies of Stalin, Conquest used "Dzhugashvili", Service used "Dzhughashvili", and Montefiore used "Djugashvili" (though Kotkin used "Jughashvili"), so there are good grounds to lead with the Russified version here. Britannica also uses "Dzhugashvili". — Goszei (talk) 18:59, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I propose the image at right (which depicts Stalin in 1932) for the infobox, replacing the current one (which shows him at the Tehran Conference in 1943). In addition to being higher quality, the 1932 image has a better view of his mustache and hair (which is hidden in the 1943 image). It also shows him less aged and tired, as well as wearing his regular tunic without shoulder boards and no parade cap, placing less emphasis on his military role (which while important only made up 4 years of his ~25 year rule). His expression in the 1932 image is less rigid and more natural. The Tehran Conference image is also already used lower in the article. — Goszei (talk) 17:43, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This image is in poor shape. Artefacts all over. Rejected.
Furthermore, one must be cognizant of the fact that Stalin was paranoid and almost every single image of him was edited by his ministry of propaganda. We need a more candid shot, and the current one fits. And I think he looks normal in it, as he did in real life. Tired and sad? Stop feeling for the genocidal maniac. Lastly, two matters of fact must be noted: 1. Stalin's face was chock-full of pockmarks in real life 2. Stalin had slight cross-eyes (his left eye tilted to the left, or the right eye tilted to the right, either way he had cross-eyes like half the poor Georgian kids back then) as visible in pictures if you squint and in this gif if you zoom in: https://jumpshare.com/s/5GhNIAuXVEhpPvxNky0h (reupload: https://gifyu.com/image/bpiya) I have the gif uncompressed, too, if you want. (by the way, I acknowledge that the current Adolf's imagebox photo is from the ministry of propaganda, too, and that's not good, though admittedly I don't know if Adolf got his face beautified by the Gerbil as much as Stalin did) -heirnich- (talk) 22:12, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Apart from the one scratch near his forehead, which is minor and could easily be retouched if desired, the image is in good shape. This photo was taken by the American photographer James Abbe, and is from one of the very few times Stalin consented to have his portrait taken close-up by a Westerner (the set taken by Margaret Bourke-White in 1941 is another example). The picture was therefore not airbrushed by Soviet censors, as evidenced by his visible pockmarks (they are even more visible in this image, from the same session). — Goszei (talk) 01:54, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The American photographer was received at the Kremlin at the deliberate invitation of Stalin, though, with guards around. Anyways, I feel like computer-generated photos shouldn't feature in infoboxes. I've seen several times how AI-enhanced pics like that get removed from the infobox, sooner latter than later. The current image has been in use for almost 2 years now, I've checked the edit history. And it's not front-facing. The current one I also like because it's from one of the most important events in the world, while your photo not. -heirnich- (talk) 11:00, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The image is not AI-enhanced, and I think a three-quarter profile is sufficient for our purposes. Also, consensus can change on long-standing images, especially since the proposed one has just been uploaded. — Goszei (talk) 15:39, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@-heirnich-: So let me get this straight. First, you take issue with the fact that there is a smear on the image under consideration. Then, you fault Goszei for correcting the imperfection you pointed out. That hardly seems fair. Additionally, on top of being significantly less crisp in quality than the proposed image, there are scratches and blemishes on the current image as well. Now that the smear has been addressed, whatever marks or scratches on the new image shouldn't count against it.
Furthermore, I think the argument that the proposed image is overly flattering of Stalin is hardly convincing. Not only does it reveal him to have a double-chin, the blemishes on his skin are actually more visible than they are in the one taken at the Tehran Conference.Emiya1980(talk) 00:05, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confused. You might be confusing me for someone else. Look at the pic, it's NOT corrected. And even if it was, it would then go against WP (as an airbrushed, touched photo), and certainly against GA standards. -heirnich- (talk) 00:15, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You know what's weird? Stalin WANTED to present himself like in that 1943 Tehran Conference pic. So not only is the current photograph:
front-facing (GA-material)
neutral (neither flattering nor unflattering)
but also:
how he himself wanted to be seen by Russians, the rest of the Soviets, and the world
And you think they wouldn't airbrush a photo of an important ally in World War II because...why?? You yourself stated that Stalin personally approved of the way he was photographed in Tehran. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for objectivity. Emiya1980 (talk) 00:27, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
-heirnich has just been confirmed to be a sockpuppet. Unless anyone else offers up any objections over the next few days, I don't see why we shouldn't have the lede image changed. Emiya1980 (talk) 00:40, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know you were just blocked half an hour ago, but to conclude this discussion, I would contend that adding that detail to an already bloated lead would be unnecessary and assigning too much weight to a specific point. Lots of neo-Stalinists and Stalin supporters right after the fall of the Soviet Union and thereafter. Yue🌙01:01, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Done Remsense ‥ 论 03:19, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
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